You Say Parrot I Say Potato

"Shurely a Parrot Croshbill Mish Monneypenny" ?

Following the BBRC decision to remove Parrot Crossbill from the BBRC list as outlined previously on this blog, and also reported in British Birds May Vol.102 p.275, the debate has ensued as to whether or not this is a good decision. There are some sensible points discussed HERE, though I am not sure about posts # 44 and #45 - and there was me thinking I was such a friendly and amiable chap ( which I am when you get to know me.....honest) !

For me BBRC decison on Parrot Crossbill is a kind of revelation, as last year the editor for the North East Scotland Bird report quite correctly insisted that I add a caveat in the text that none of my Parrot Crossbill records had been submitted for review by BBRC. So were my Parrot records credible ? This was my primary concern as, without the blessing of BBRC, these 'unverified' records (all mine !) could perhaps be seen as vague at best - "stringy" is the correct term, as I understand ? However, we all know that biometrically and bio-acoustically "Parrot" type birds have been getting trapped and sound recorded in Scotland for well over a decade. Thus back to the BF debate, which sadly I can't take part in. I sit on both sides of the fence on this one for the following reasons:

My own records of Parrot 'type' Crossbills now gain credibility and there is now an acknowledgement that Parrot type birds breed and are resident in NE Scotland, differentiated from 'migrant' records. Hooray, result !

But:

Presumably all records submitted by other parties will also be accepted without verification ? But,what if these are mistaken or errant - given the ongoing confusion amongst most birders between Parrot, Scottish and even Common is this a wise policy ? Also, what about 'true' migrant Parrot type birds on Fair Isle or the Norfolk Coast - do BBRC not want descriptions of these either ?

Now, this really makes me sound omnipotent and selfish, doesn't it ? Basically, what I can be accused of saying is that I can ID Parrot Crossbills and nobody else can ? Well no actually, that is not what I am getting at, and far from it really. It is not that 'other' records can't be trusted but, in my defence, a lot of pictures I see of 'Scottish Crossbills' on the web, and even published articles, appears to be one of these Parrot type birds. So, if someone reports a specimen as Scottish Crossbill then it is, in all probability, very likely a Parrot Crossbill ! This may work in everyones favour regarding accuracy eg. a big billed bird is most likely a Parrot type, however some Scottish types do appear to overlap with the smaller end of the Parrot size range - at least they are considered as Scottish just now, but may be a modal bill size all of their own. Readers may remember a long since hacked and deleted post on this blog about a large billed crossbill sighted in Wales by Dan Brown ? My advice was that although the bird appeared to have a large mandible this could have been out of proportion to it's body - a small bodied bird with a disproportionately large bill can look 'Scottish' or 'Parroty'. There is a good example in Birds of Scotland of a profile of a Scottish type bird with a HUGE honker of a beak in the photo, yet it's bill depth was bang on for Scottish. It clearly had 'big beak, smaller head' syndrome !

Scottish, Parrots or Common? Ask the audience? Phone a Friend? Final Answer ?

For those sound recording to verify their 'observations' the flight calls are also very confusable, as I see time and time again - according to Knox, and Constantine and Mullarney, Parrot flight calls in Fennoscandia and on the continent can be quite variable, though I am not sure if they confirmed this with biometrically verified birds. Magnus Robb has also recently recorded some variation in Parrot Crossbill call types from several different irruptions into Holland. In Scotland there does seem to be some variation with Fc2. Poor sound signals can result in calls losing important structural features and frequency can vary with distance, and, it seems, simply by natural variation within a call type. Thus, these calls are easily confusable on sonogram. By ear, without much experience or suitable comparison, it would be very easy to confuse Parrot EcD with Common EcA, the latter sounds slightly higher, hollower in timbre and with more obvious harmonics - but what does that actually mean in the field ! ? Parrot Fc2 can also be very easily confused with the thinner "Cheepy" Fc1 of Common Crossbills that are prevalent up here in Scotland just now, both on sonogram and 'by ear'.

However,with tangible physical measurements such as biometrics or a sound recording a record can be updated or reviewed in the future should our knowledge change regarding crossbill speciation. A statement " 5 Parrot Crossbills at Anagach Wood" cannot. It simply infers that there were (possibly) several big billed crossbills there. Photos help to some degree but can be misleading - lots of shots of the same individual from different perspectives are often required.

Back to the Bird Forum debate and some of the comments, some of which mention me personally. James Spencer (Hotspur) writes in post #5 :

"If you adhere to Lindsay Cargill's identifications then most of the Scotsbill in the various bird galleries are actually Parrot Crossbill".

Yes and no James - I have basically suggested this as a generalisation, but I have not identified every single photograph on the web ! There clearly are some Scottish Crossbills on web galleries - there are even some of mine on the dreaded Bird Forum ! Granted a large amount of birds labelled as 'Scottish' would be classed as 'Parrot' type by me using my own experiences and under currently accepted classification and thinking here in Scotland eg. bios and calls as they stand.

In post #25 Richard Klim writes:

"Laurent Raty made the following comment during a recent ID-Frontiers discussion about the recently-described South Hills Crossbill (suggesting that Parrot is now more likely than Scottish at Abernethy):

"... medium-size-billed crossbills in Scotland [Scottish crossbills] are now found largely in alien conifer plantations, rather than in native Scots pine forests where they are supposed to have evolved [and where bigger-billed birds now occur]."

The quote by Laurent, a very knowledgeable and nice chap, regarding medium sized birds is true..........to an extent ! Scottish can occur in alien conifer plantations but generally at particular times of the year. This caveat is very important: In February scotica is usually back on territory in either native or plantation Scots pine. The problem being so is curvirostra, though some will feed on Larch until April if it is still present - this winter the Commons, and Scottish for that matter, were predominantly found on Scots pine throughout the year due to a Larch and Spruce crop failure. Scottish will move on to Larch in late summer and early Autumn and will flit between Larch and Scots Pine through the winter. They will aslo subsist on Spruce, particularly Norway if present, and Lodgepole.

However, all of this potentially gets even more complex, and this is my point: how may people are mistaking Common Crossbills for Scottish Crossbill ? Parrot and Scottish are always considered the ones that are confusable, but in reality it is probably Common and Scottish (under current classification criteria) that cause most problems. The female bird in the top banner of Loxia Fantastica is a second calendar year Scottish Crossbill. Be honest: how many of you would have had that down as Common ? The bill shape is not typical Scottish, certainly not from that angle, but the plumage definitely is, though Common's feeding exclusively on Scots Pine may also appear 'dusky'. The bird gave a Scottish type call.

In balance I think the BBRC decision is the right one - a few misidentified specimens of either species will be overshadowed by the hundreds of verified (but not submitted records) that crossbill researchers and enthusiasts collect, that till now have always been in a dodgy 'are they aren't they' area ! Bear in mind most of my records are confirmed by either calls or biometrics (colour ringed birds that have previously been trapped). Actually, in my opinion they still are in that 'dodgy area' for reasons cited in a post way down below regarding the possible identity of the true relict Pine Crossbill of the Great Forest of Caledon ( just my thoughts, half baked maybe), but at least it gives us an position to move on from should classification be altered in the future. 'Parrot Crossbill', in my book, is merely a label for the largest billed crossbills that exist in Scotland and also on the continent. The Scottish 'Parrot Crossbills' may be the 'same stock' as their continental counterparts, though maybe they are not, and are actually the real relict 'Scottish' pine wood species. Certainly food for thought I think

"Touchdown " - The Eagle Has Landed !

Evidence of Type 4E Crossbills On The Mainland !

Monday 6th July


I managed to get out on Monday 6th July for a bit - it's a long story but things have been mental lately. I will not bore you with details but don't get involved in a car smash even when it is not your fault.....me okay, car not I am afraid. I am in hire car for 12 weeks.......

First site was East Durris. Many cleg flies on arriving into car park - not a good sign. On goes liberal doses of Autan ( have you ever been bitten by a cleg fly ? Not a horsefly, a Cleg is MUCH worse as it slices into your skin and blood pishes out !). Anyway, as I was doing that two Common Crossbills flyover, both giving a Fc4 ( same as those on Shetland currently). I didn't get a sonagram, but to be honest, and without sounding smart, I didn't need one as to me Fc4 is the easiest of the 'Common' flight calls to do by ear. But a few minutes later they went back over and this time the Telinga got them, and yes they were Fc4 confirmed on computer later that night. The larches at this site were still green ( they do use them like that) but not quite there yet I thought.

I decided to hit a site a few miles to the West just before Strachan ( pronounced Stra'an). Here, on getting out the car a flock of at least 40 went over, and although it was a cacophany I could clearly pick out Fc4 and EcE from them ( the sonogram later confirmed this).

I followed parties of birds around for an hour and a half before a really serious thunder storm and torrential rain curbed activities. All the birds I observed were feeding on plantation Scots Pine cones that still had some seeds. They were highly mobile suggesting that they were being very selective about which cones they were using eg. ones they could open, and there weren't many of them. I saw quite a few males with the faint fringing on the greater coverts, again like those on Shetland. I also saw a courtship feeding between a male and female and these were 4E types ( so they might breed straight away !? ). I should point out 4E types have gone of the radar over the last two years in my area - I have recorded several, but nothing like the 25% or so that was present in 2007. On Monday I also recorded quite a few 1B types, one identical to a sonogram Dougie Preston sent me and also the 1A types that have been all over the place since the turn of the year.


Wednesday 15th July


Same site as second location at Strachan on 6th. Lots of birds and now feeding in the larches. Many singing, some with a song I have not heard............Some 1A types but many 4E's with their very distinctive flight calls ( these really are easy to do by ear, the easiest in fact as above !)


In upper Deeside semi-natural habitat Fc4 was present, so they have apparently penetrated the full Dee Valley. This is the first year where I know for sure the call types of the immigrant crossbills ( eg. are not just roaming or displaced resident birds) and have tracked them pretty much from the coast right up the valley, approx. 80 kms !


With many being reported in the South and East of England just now it would be very interesting to see if these are also 4E types - they may not be. Anyone ?

More Thoughts On Irruptive and Wing Barred Crossbills

Reading through Birding World Vol.21 Number 8 Issue 260 it struck me how many of the Two-barred Crossbills in July and August influx to Shetland last year were juveniles ( in streaked plumage). The consensus was that these 'streakies' fledged in Spring 08, which according the BWP is fairly typical. There were also adult birds accompanying them and these had undergone post breeding moult (from the pictures) eg. they were in at least their second year.

On the other hand, the Orkney 'wing barred' crossbills in June and July this year to me look like birds which fledged very early this year or possibly late last year, typical of curvirostra's breeding patterns. It is unlikely that they would have such 'retarded' wing bars if they were genuine Two-Barred's in their second calendar year ? Even the streaked juvenile two barred's last year had strong white on their greater coverts. It is also unlikely that two barred crossbills that fledged in Spring 2009 would be so advanced into their post-juvenile moult as these recent Orkney curvirostra type specimens, again based on the streaked juveniles last year in July and August. Many of the birds that have been photographed recently in the Northern Isles appear to be these 'first summer' (or second year) types, exhibiting fringes on particularly the greater coverts and some on the tertials, with mottled body moult eg. males with green blotches. A good example of a wing-barred Common that even has broadening fringes towards the body ala Two-barred is HERE - still doesn't look 'right' for Two-Barred does it ?

I have been pondering where all these Common Crossbills have come from and why ? How about these scenerios, and please bear in mind I am just 'thinking out aloud' here eg. I reserve the right to change my options or be completely wrong !

1) The Common Crossbills are from either/and/or Finland, Norway, Sweden and North West Russia. A localised Larch and Spruce failure has meant birds now have to move from there as Scot's Pine will have shed most of their seeds. They are errupting from these (nearer) areas fairly recently.

2) The birds have possibly been moving from much further East or North/East for several months, foraging crops as they go, after breeding (late last year or late autumn) and there is a 'lag' effect. If they were coming from further East, then settling temporarily in areas in Finland, Sweden etc where other crossbill populations may also be present or resident, then we could assume that these would also be moving now for the same reasons - if so, there could be differences in call types, biometrics and stable isotope analysis of feathers for these different populations.

Common Crossbills normally errupt after a successful breeding season and/or coinciding with a poor spruce crop. This means there is usually a high percentage of juveniles. For example, in 2005 there appeared to be a significant proportion of streaked juveniles on rigs, Fair Isle etc.

If the 2009 irruption does not have a high incidence of streaked juveniles (which so far it doesn't seem to) then this possibly implies scenario 2) whereby regionally 'settled' birds have bred ( in the Autumn/Late Winter) and this food source has now become depleted and they are moving westwards over several months. Where they have come from is harder to establish, though stable isotope data should determine this ( to some degree). However, the calls so far appear to be only of one type predominantly 4E with only one 1B thanks to the efforts of Dougie Preston and Hugh Harrop. It would have been interesting to know what the Orkney and St.Kilda ones were. Perhaps 4E is less selected for the crops that are available where they are moving through (possibly Scots Pine which is still holding some seeds, though I have several records of 4E's using Scot's Pine in midwinter in Scotland - nothing is straightforward with crossbills !). If the call types of the influx birds are primarily of one variety then this perhaps suggests only one curvirostra type/morph/cryptic species is errupting the continent. It would be an interesting opportunity to try and understand why this is the case.

What would have been extremely interesting is if anyone had been sound recording the calls of crossbills in these continental regions over the last year or so - we basically need several LoxiaFan's in Russia, Finland, Sweden, Norway and on each of the Northern Isles ! We would then know what call types were present and also if there were any changes, and if these changes can be 'tracked' and in what directions. I would be particularly interested in comparing call types with deuterium levels in feathers maybe this could geographically map regional 'dialects' in crossbills populations within Europe as has been done in the USA. Knowing the status of the various cone crops in these areas would also be helpful.

I'll sleep on this and see what I think, but really these birds could have come from anywhere, but the significant observation here is the apparent lack of fresh juvenile birds and the call types of those birds that have been moving through Shetland.


I told you I had a feeling about this year and an irruption !

Raising The Bar

Thought this might be of note to those currently interested in wing barred crossbills in the northern isles just now. Many thanks to Stuart Reeves for passing these on to me last year ( or year before ? ) -








I also recall reading something about the two-barreds from last years irruption in either Birding World or British Birds earlier this year or last year.

Hope this helps - if anyone could get me some recordings of any crossbills from up there that would be fantastic !

Barred For Life

Following Alistair's comments below about the Orkney wing barred Crossbills, I thought I would post some pics of 'pine' crossbills with similar plumage structures.

First up, a first winter male, photographed in Deeside in October 2005, the picture quality is absolutely shocking ( light was bad and from the looks of it I might have been pointing the camera the wrong way round !):

However, you can clearly see it a male Parrot Crossbill ( first winter) based on the massive bill depth, and it has white fringes to the greater coverts and tertials, with some faint brown fringing on the median coverts.

Next, a cracking first winter male Parrot Crossbill caught in Deeside in October 2006:

This specimen (bill depth of 13.2mm) has light pale fringes to greater coverts, median coverts and tertials. Normally, these fringes if present are more buff brown in colour. An open wing shot of same bird:

I know some people don't like 'in the hand' shots like this but please appreciate these photographs are only taken to record such plumage and bill shape details of individual colour ringed specimens - they are not 'trophy' shots ! If they had not been taken you would not be reading this post ! All birds are processed as quickly as possible and released unharmed - this particular specimen has been re-sighted many times since its capture and release in October 2006 including feeding juveniles in 2007 and resighted again just a few weeks ago.

The Orkney wing-barred crossbills ? Well the female looks like a Common Crossbill version of my birds above. The male is obscured by foliage but I agree with one of the posters that the fringes look brown not white, and that the tertials are not visible. So for me one definite Common Crossbill (female) and one 'most likey' Common (male).